Marcio_Osorio

How would you word it in EP?

I struggled with this: "You can get in and around the house as freely as you do in and around yours; you can help yourself to the refrigerator, watch TV for as long as you want, use our family car, and ask for money on the condition that you will pay us back."

Of course, you will make infinitely better statements, much more so than a NNSE ever thought capable of making. Thank you.

ZeroCapacity

Welcome to my home and things. Please make yourself comfortable.

Marcio_Osorio

ZeroCapacity, thank you.

ZeroCapacity

Welcome Marcio glad to help

Weetabix

How about, "My pleasure?"

Marcio_Osorio

Weetabix, it seems to me that a silent "is" hides anywhere behind "My pleasure!" Please correct me accordingly.

Weetabix

Marcio - You may have found a problem.

Unless the speaker meant, "My pleasure lies in serving you." Or accommodating you or helping you or whatever.

Karen

More importantly, the word pleasure represents a 'noun'. In the English language, a complete sentence can have two words as long as you would have a noun followed by a verb followed by a full stop (.) Example, Weetabix fell. or Marcio swam. These examples reflect complete sentences by English language standards. In the example, My pleasure, you have written a noun followed by a noun.

Weetabix

In the example, My pleasure, I've written a possessive pronoun followed by a noun.

However, one need not speak only in whole sentences or grammatically correct sentences with some words understood. Lots of informal communication consists of fragments, interjections, single nouns, etc.

"Who ate my cookie?"
"John." (noun, fragment with an understood "ate it" or "did")
"Dang!" (interjection)
"Have another."
"Thanks!" (fragment for "I thank you for this delicious treat!")
"Do you know what you should do now?"
"What?" (pronoun, fragment for "What should I do now?")
"Go!" (an entire, grammatically correct sentence of one word, a verb, with the understood subject "you")

I've always considered forums (fora?) like this to operate relatively informally, so I thought the "My pleasure" might pass.

Karen

I quite agree with you, we have become very lazy in the spoken English language and for that reason, we end up climbing the ladder of inference, assuming one thing when the speaker really means something else. E-prime written language eliminates the assumptions and reinforces clarity and conciseness. I try to focus my energies on writing in e-prime because this reinforces my walking the talk, so to speak! Imagine if the world did not depend on 'the assumption of something understood'. I had to learn the hard way living in a country that has more assumptions in their spoken language than the language spoken in the country from which I originally lived. At first, this think first before you speak feels unnatural, but if you stay with it, you find that people will respond to you more favorably and listen to you with more interest. Give it a try for 1 month and let me know what the results.

Weetabix

In what country do you live, and from what country did you originate?

Actually, I've given it a try for about the last 5 years, though I began dabbling with it around 1995 when a colleague gave me David Bourland's 1989 paper to read.

I don't know that I'd agree that e-prime leads to conciseness because it leads you to express yourself more fully, leaving less to "the assumption of something understood" as you so aptly put it.

I agree, wholeheartedly, that it enables greater clarity. That greater clarity has sometimes gotten me into trouble as I express things previously left unemphasised.

Karen

Morning Weetabix, I originated from the states, but for the past 21 years, I have lived in Karachi, Pakistan, a truly wonderful country with amazing people and culture. E-Prime has added a lot of value in my profession as a training facilitator and consultant. In response to your statement about 'conciseness', I believe e-prime leads to conciseness, because it stops others with whom I talk from imagining so much more than what I have said. Those unspoken thoughts translate to more words than what I would have written. Have a good evening.

Karen

Has everyone taken off the weekend? I have observed 0 activity on this site other than myself for the past few days. Hope all remains well for everyone. Lets keep this site alive.

Marcio_Osorio

Karen, I did a lot of lurking on the board this weekend. I did have some translation requests which I repeatedly failed to post, the majority of which may actually sound quite "scholarly." An ESLer's English gets as good as it can get.

Weetabix

I took the weekend off. I don't have access to the internet at home.

Karen

Glad to read messages from both of you. Weetabix, did you make a personal choice not to have internet at your home? Since I have a portion of my business out of my home, I could not imagine not having access to the internet at home.

Marcio, post your translation requests. I like to use them in the courses I teach. With the audience I instruct in some corporations in Pakistan, these translations become a real challenge for them.

Weetabix

I do no business from home, and I found I didn't use it enough to justify paying for it. I haven't missed it. Of course, my family and my old house keep me busy.

Karen

When did your house get built?

Weetabix

1922 or thereabouts. People in most parts of the world would not consider that old, but it passes here. It has high ceilings, lots of neat wood work, hard wood floors, leaky windows and high utility bills. I really like it, but, honestly, it takes more energetic maintenance than I have energy.

Karen

I loved the tutor style homes in Det.and Birmingham Mich. I found something very enchanting about their design. Did you restore this home?

Marcio_Osorio

Yes, Karen, I will post some more translation requests. I have quite a lot of them.

Weetabix

I work on it one project at a time, and slowly. I imagine I won't have much money available to do much until age takes away my desire to work on it.

Karen

Marcio, I look forward to the translations you plan to send to me.......

Chinmay

We Welcome you

__________________
☆¢нιηмαу☆`·.¸. The Rising ☆ of XI A5

Marcio_Osorio

Chimnay, good one!

Karen

Chinmay, does XI A5 mean 11th grade section A5?

Marcio_Osorio

Just today I wrote a desk-to-desk memo to the hospital's computer supplies sector that read:

Manager:

The referred above, which fed one of our computer printers, burned out. We ask you to please send us a new, more powerful voltage stabilizer."

My boss signed it, but he told me it sounded too "bluntly direct" (to the point) and advised me, "Next time soften it (change the wording to look soft.)"!

Karen

On March 5th, one of our computer printers burned out and we suspect this happened because the voltage stabilizer we have on hand does not supply enough voltage. Could you supply us with a more powerful voltage stabilizer before the end of the work week? Please advise. Respectfully, Marcio

Chinmay

Yes, XI A5 means Class 11 sectiona A5.By the way,Karen hasrepresented Marcio's statement in a better way.

__________________
☆¢нιηмαу☆`·.¸. The Rising ☆ of XI A5

Marcio_Osorio

Karen, thank you for "making it better" for me. On transcribing the memo, I forgot to add one of its lines (Reference: Stabilizer HI-TECH 1000 cat. No. UFPE 2736-2001), which burned out. Some smoke came out of it and people in the room scrambled to pull the plug, lest the whole room caught fire!

Marcio_Osorio

Yes, Chimnay, Karen indeed translated most of the "harshness" of the original memo into an agreably written and connected memo.

Karen

Thank you both for your kind words. I would like to do more of this kind of translation and wish other members on this site would take advantage of my skill. I put this message out to everyone who belongs to this site, please send me some of your memos before Wednesday the 12th as I have a workshop on e-prime/Business Writing and Presentation Skills and would like to have my participants use original material from memos that I receive from everyone on this site. By the end of this workshop, I will have trained over 2000 people to write in e-prime.

Chinmay

Unfortunately, many members of this site seem too preoccupied to visit this community.How did your workshop go, Karen?

__________________
☆¢нιηмαу☆`·.¸. The Rising ☆ of XI A5

Karen

Maashallah, the Lahore work shop went amazingly well. The energy of the participants, their thirst to learn and practice while they had my attention, I could not have asked for a better class of participants. jazakallah. Thank you for asking. K

Karen

I feel sad when daily I check this web site and find no one has taken an interest for over a week to practice their e-prime. What has happened? Where did all the e-primers go?

life

I think e-prime.com needs interesting topic threads and more web advertisement. We cannot deny the fact that beginners in e-prime have difficulties at first but can develop by practicing.

Marcio_Osorio

I heard you both. Apart from simple translation requests, I can't think of any more topics to open.

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