Geoff White

Pink Floyd created a music album, 'Wish you were here'
including a title track with the same name.
I wonder about that, so will try something...



Wish you were here --> Wish for you here.

I can't imagine any other ways to tell the story, and make it rhyme and meter.

Wish for you here

So, so you think you can tell
heaven from hell,
blue skies from pain
Can you tell a green field
from a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil,
Do you think you can tell?
Did they get you to trade
your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
Did you exchange
a walk on part in the war
for a lead role in a cage?
How I wish,
how I wish for you here.
I just see two lost souls
swimming in a fish bowl,
year after year
Running over the same old ground
What have we found?
The same old fears.
Wish for you here.


=-=On the other hand, I find something to say
about 'being' and wishing for someone to
'be' here with me. Wishing you were here,
in a Chicago lyric, I think.
Reflecting, I think my suggested change
diminishes the beauty of the song lyrics.
So I would probably not change the song.

Perhaps someone will have a comment.Geoff

Karen

Teach me how to write in verse. Karen

Geoff White

I think.
Bernie Taupin?
Perhaps I'm just hopin'?
No need to rhyme.

Coolness can come
from rhythm and meter.

Do you think of Shakespeare?
You might read a sonnet,
or even King Lear?

My favorite's Macbeth!

You might look to that master,
also, there's Chaucer.

I might look to Churchill,
sometimes irascible,
and knew
when to break the rules.

God, I love to write.
But, I'm not very good.

Apologies for silly drivel,
no more than
a piddle in the wind.

Reminds me of Bonzo Dog...
Does not seem e-prime,
but resonates for me!

'I do what I do.
I am what I am.
We are what we are.
We do what we can.'

How to Re-solve that?

I 'am' a bunch of copies
of others ideas,
pointing to various copies,
saying and thinking
'That's me! over there!'

I caught that idea.

Ideas?

Some take, and
some catch, like a virus.


15 minutes passed... you try?


Geoff
PS
Also, I ended up pasting a < p >
in front of each new line, do you
know another way with this editor?

Geoff White

I try.

On Statistics

Most people have more than
the average number of legs.
it's true.
Some people have only one,
some have none.
So, the average number of legs
is something less than two.

There are two kinds of statistics:
the kind you look up
and the kind you make up.

In early times they had no statistics,
so they fell back on lies.

A roadside merchant was asked how he
could sell his wild rabbit sandwiches so cheap.
"Well" he explained, "I put some horse-meat in 'em.
But I mix 'em 50:50. One horse, one rabbit."

He used statistics like a drunk uses lamp-posts;
More for support than illumination.

Statistics on sanity show one out of every four
people suffer from some form of mental illness.
Think of your three best friends. If they're okay,
then it's you.

I read the chances of having a passenger on a plane
with a bomb was one in a thousand. That seemed
a little high for comfort. I did a quick calculation and
discovered the probability of having TWO bombs on
one plane is one in a million. So now I take along
my own bomb.

The government likes distributing vast quantities of
statistics. Intensive calculations reduce results into
elaborate and impressive displays. That's bad enough,
but keep in mind that the starting numbers are first put
down by bean counters and they count them any way
they please.

Torture the data long enough and it confesses to anything.


So... do I like statisticians? Probably.

I liked the statistician's daughter,
she knew all the standard deviations.

Statistics are like bikinis--
the revealing is suggestive,
compared to what they conceal.

Statistics compare to loose women.
Play around with them long enough,
they do anything you want.

When I was in school, I thought
"If I had only one hour left to live,
I am in my statistics classroom."
It would have seemed much longer.


(But not as tedious as this e-mail, heh.)

G

Not much original there except for
knitting things together.

---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 PM ----------

In my opinion some of the very best writing
largely conforms to e-prime. But it seems a
bit overdone. Perhaps someone develops a
measure of e-prime proportion, i.e. (aww
$%l# oops not e-prime there, i.e is
shorthand for "that is"). Anyway, perhaps
someone develops a measure and then take
some classics and see how they measure up?

What do I mean?

When I want to say something to someone
about when I was in school, it seems
contorted to say any alternatives.

I mean to say, I was in school.

were you in school?

were you?

I am confused.

Help!

Karen

When you use vague language, you will always come across mixed messages.

If you say, 'I was in school', that doesn't mean you went to class, it just means that you went inside a school building for 'x' amount of time.

At one of the workshops I conducted, one of my participants used a perfect example of vague language.

He said, "My subordinate doesn't do the reports I ask him to do".

I asked, "How do you know he didn't do the reports?"

He responded, "The reports never crossed my desk when I asked for them".

I then rephrased his statement, "You mean, you have not received the reports that you asked your subordinate to do. He very well may have completed the reports, but did not hand them in to you. Or, he may have handed in his reports to your office staff and you did not receive them". We can effectively speak in terms of what we have observed.

In e-prime, if you stick to the observable language, you become very specific in what you have to say.

When you say, I 'am' confused, I would like to rephrase your statement to give it more meaning. Since confusion falls under 'emotions', the statement would have more effect if you said, I feel confused.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Geoff White

I have thought about e-prime, and
find some help there, if it "is" not
overdone. My confusion over. I have
journaled a mass of details...

I will share some. Maybe more later
But I think I'm done.

You say:
"When you use vague language,
you will always come across
mixed messages."

I thought about that. Good point!
I think you put your finger on it.

I add to a journal...

I think about mixing. Things can
"be" mixed!

I mix a lot, and anyone can call some
of it vague, or say "you will always
come across mixed messages".

I see mixing creates, yes, some problems,
and mixing, quite simply, creates.

Also, I see nothing wrong with expression
that does not hurt anyone. That involves
some judgement of possibility, awareness
of others, and... complications do arise!

I see complications when I mix,
such as:
metaphor, simile,
allusion, irony,
hyperbole, apostrophe,
and a paradox, or two.

I like mental gymnastics. So, I mix.

The idea of e-prime recently caught
my attention. I see it as a filter.

A filter can remove something, and
that can make a better result. OK!

Filter air, remove dust, allergens.
OK. Leave good stuff, like oxygen.

PART 2

You asked about writing in verse.
That suggests you think of creation.

I suggest all creation "is" mixing...
I think "copula". It comes from Latin,
it means, most simply, linking.

Well, I think-- linking "is" creation?
creation "is" linking? I ponder that.

So, putting filters on that might
cause some confusion, some alarm!?

I think I have that resolved now.

PART 3

Some blue and some yellow,
One creates various greens.
Beautiful.

Eggs, some dill, salt and pepper,
a pan, heat, and oil.
One creates a meal.
Tasty.

An apple tree, a breeze on a summer day,
Newton's on to Gravity!

Mix some more, and Einstein's got
a Theory of Relativity.

So, thoughts meet and juxtapose,
something new happens.

A man, a woman, a smile, a child.

Oh, I see some vagueness, something
ambiguous. I put "a smile", in the
middle. Like it? I wonder what do
you think.

Could be man, woman, child, smile.

Smile before? After? Both? All?

I suggest ambiguity, or vagueness,
even subtlety, "is" inherent to
creative expression.

"Memories come from a happy day,
full of expression and recreation."

People may find their own meaning.
Or not. That's what I think.

Think of this like a coin. Two sides,
bigger the front, bigger the back.

PART 4
I think creation requires mixture.

Mixture draws distinction from void.

Discovery "is" finding something,
not yet touched.

What could it "be"?
something unknown,
a possibility?

Something not yet clear may seem confused,
vague or ambiguous. Creation in process?

Would one say, "then hold your tongue"?
Things "weren't" the same when I "was" young.

I think most children create easily, naturally.
Then they go to school. Heh.

Makes me think of what you said:

"[...] 'I was in school',
that doesn't mean you went to class,
it just means that you went
inside a school building
for 'x' amount of time."

I found that funny. Really. Good one!

"...doesn't mean you went to class." Heh!

I wonder what you thought.

I skipped 'em all?

Heck, maybe you think I wasn't even "inside
a school building for 'x' amount of time"

Doing what? Outside smoking something?
When "they were" handing out the brains
I "was" off somewhere getting hamburgered?

Ohh, that's a bit edgy. Humor or agression?

So, Interesting... creativity comes in three
types:

Humor, Art and Science

I think of Koestler, "The Act of Creation",
a bit long, but good. I do a quick precis,
on that book (many hundreds of pages):
-=-
New ideas are a mix. Two things intersect.

Most creativity is on a scale, ranging
like this: science <--> art <--> humor.

Science: the facts, dispassionate
Art: feeling, emotion, passion
Humor: wry surprise, edgy, agressive?

Koestler does a job showing a spectrum,
and parallels between the three aspects,
in terms of creativity. That revolves
around juxtaposition or mixing of ideas.
=-=

Best wishes.

Karen

Good morning.......I love your 'mixed' creations, and would find the literary world quite boring without the mixture of

---------- Post added at 04:18 am ---------- Previous post was at 03:58 am ----------

Good morning.......I love your 'mixed' creations, and would find the literary world quite boring without the mixture of metaphors, similes, allusions, ironies, hyperboles, and a paradoxies where I often use my imagination to highten my sense of creativity.

However, I find the corporate sector, specifically in business writing, the best place to use e-prime. When I write a memo, internal proposal, executive summary, business or informative letter to an internal or external client, I don't want them guessing what action I want them to take, or try to figure out what point I have tried to get across to them. Data and observation play a key role in passing on this information. That does not mean I can not make educated assumptions, but the data I present would play a key role in supporting my assumptions. E-prime has an exactness about it that makes for clear concise and focused messages. How fortunate for the business world! Karen

Geoff White

[...] I find the corporate sector, specifically in business writing,
the best place to use e-prime.

I see much to recommend parts of e-prime
for all types of communication: business,
personal, and also for creative expression.

I suggest the experience of conforming to
e-prime rules teaches something, but feel
that once the lesson is learned it should
not create a straight-jacket. I know that.

are we well mixed?

You mentioned...
"... used a perfect example of vague language.
He said, "My subordinate doesn't do the reports
I ask him to do".
I asked, "How do you know he didn't do the reports?"
He responded, "The reports never crossed my desk
when I asked for them".

I respond to that.
I see vagueness or ambiguity in the word "report."

One says...
"While duck hunting, I heard a report..."
OK, so the report went "bang".
"I commanded the force to report for duty at 7AM."
OK, report: "show up" or "be there", for duty, yes?

I suggest this, one works in a Corp. environment,
boss asks you about "Popstack", maybe says
"If you would, I'd like a report on "Popstack",
can I have that by tomorrow morning, please?"

That would be very polite. I like "If you would"
and "Please" and "Thank You", they show respect.

If you say "yes/OK", then boss reasonably expects
"you to give", and if you do not "give it" to them,
boss considers you did not do what was both asked
and agreed. But, good corp. environment. Polite
and to the point.

If boss is less polite, "Please have a report of
XYZ on my desk first thing in the morning."

Also possible request: "I need a report on XYZ,
please do it ASAP."

The subtext, the underlying idea, is the boss
wants a report. The report either is "reported"
i.e gets to boss, or else the boss has no report.
Job not done? Did someone not "Do" something?

Again, I think of school. A child is asked to
for some work. Teacher asks for work, child
doesn't have it. Teacher considers not done.

I think, "The dog ate my homework!"

A lot of working life, life in general,
is expectation.Give and take, a balance.

I found your thoughts about passing work product,
to one's boss, by involving co-workers, amusing.

I think of problems with that concept flying well.

Too many ways for meadow muffins to hit windmill.

---------- Post added at 10:54 am ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 am ----------

This came to mind about a week ago,
a pastiche. I mention it to demonstrate
my thought about the quality of e-prime
for all kinds of comunnictaion, including
creative writing.

I guess the line "we can't see the rest"
fails the test, but I doubt changing it.

*+*+*+*

(Untitled)

Man, woman, smile, child.

We exist.

Before now, younger.
Before that, small children.
Before that, a gleam in the eye,
a smile?

Before that, a possibility.
In 500 years? Remember me?

Timeless, boundless,
one in all, all in one.

Reality.
We see what we see,
we can't see the rest.

All that exists,
all from the past,
all of the future.

We see a few parts.
Sliced and diced.

Choosing the parts.
Yes, and No.

+*+*+*+

Reminds me of a grand buffet! heh!

A biento!

Geoff

---------- Post added at 11:32 am ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 am ----------

If you work for businesses in a consulting capacity,
I wonder if you give any consideration to other
aspects of business procedure, beyond e-prime.

If I needed to start a business, I have a number of
different ideas.

One that might work for you... Promote and assist
the setup of:

"Internal (INTRA-net) Business Process Wiki"

Managing a large organization, if you could
choose between having excellent employees,
OR excellent business procedures, which do
you choose?

Interesting question?

I kNOW I'd choose the excellent procedures,
and know that when good people leave, I
hire new people and can "show them how
we do the job here", because I have a
well-defined, documented, set of procedures.

In a large organization, the procedures are
at all levels, from the corporate office, to
upper and mid-level management, to the
production, technical and support functions.

Very often I see "fractured organization".

Communication in a good organization "is"
organic, like a tree. All the parts function and
transport their contribution freely and easily.

In a tree, the sap flows up and down, leaves
collect energy from the sun, branches support
that and serve as pathways, the trunk supports
and connects all, the roots collect water and
minerals from the soil. Everything interacts!

I see few large companies functioning like a tree.

I see quite a few that more resemble a "one way
flow, inorganic, system" (think sewer? all flows
downhill?) Apologies if that is too graphic.

Anyway, how to develop and maintain the great
procedures, that result in success?

The ideas must come from ALL levels of the
orgranization, good management and execution
at all levels. The lowliest employee working in
customer service knows things that those in
the executive office don't. The specialists in
various areas know things that could help the
folks in other departments.

In most organiztaions very little of this is
documented on a company-wide basis.

One exception is the case where there is
the possibility of legal liability! (Examine
what the typical HR dept does! They let
everyone KNOW what the policies are
regarding discrimination, etc.)

Funny that the possibility of legal liability
is perhaps the biggest motivator for really
effective "corporate wide" communication.

People at all levels have the most important
resources of an orgaization.

A Corprorate Intranet Wiki could be a way
to make good use of those resources at
all levels.

Geoff White

You may get that I like the idea of e-prime
for creative writing, as well as for business
and personal communication.

I wrote something, a collection of others'
ideas, as usual...

Ruts, rails, gauges, bogies
-----------------------------

I read some interesting articles, starting with
one about "Standards", which indicated inherited
standards-- often with a long (!) history.

That first item indicated the common standard train
rail "gauge" (track width/width between train wheels),
equals 4 foot 8.5 inches, dating way back, possibly
even to Roman roads and vehicles.

I wonder. Roman empire, still an influence.

Wheeled vehicles created ruts, from ancient times.

Archeologists examine old Roman roads and find they
have about the same 4 foot 8.5 inch width.

I discover Romans had laws for legal wheel width
for carts and chariots.

After carts and chariots, people upgrade to wagons,
carriages, trams, and so on.

The width between wheels stays about the same.

Wow. I get a feeling of some possibility of truth.

The apparent reasoning: if you use differing wheel
widths, that creates extra wear and tear on vehicles.

I suppose a standard width also makes it easier to
steer in the ruts.

One might say "Please make me one, like most of the
others? -- a good fit for the paths."

Full article here: Old Standards Never Die
Old Standards Never Die

I liked the bit at the end (paraphrase) "...next time
you receive a spec... and wonder 'what horse's ass
came up with this?', you may be right...

Roman chariots were wide enough to accommodate the
back-ends of two horses.

I laughed at that, and wondered how much of the story
might be true.


Well, all this got interesting to me, so I looked
up a bit of stuff on railway gauges, and there are
smaller and larger gauges than the most common one.

Info about mixing rail gauges...

Rail gauge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Variable gauge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bogie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bogie exchange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On to bogies...

Makes ya think of Casablanca.

Still self absorbed...

G

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